difference between r12 and r134a gauges

First things first. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. In contrast, older CFC refrigerants had an ODP of 1. The following is verbatim from EPAs website: EPA performs random inspections, responds to tips, and pursues potential cases against violators of the Section 608 regulations. R12 has a GWP of 10,910, so its effect on global warming is over 10,000 times greater than carbon dioxide. All signatories to the Montreal Treaty stopped the production of CFC products. Thats simply not true. In contrast, the most likely reason youd consider recharging with an alternative refrigerant is because the refrigerant leaked out of your car and youre trying to avoid doing a full-on A/C rejuvenation which includes finding the leak and properly changing refrigerants. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. You can get it and use it. If an A/C system isnt working, the root cause needs to be diagnosed, and the system needs to be fixed. On the high side, R134a pressure runs about 10% higher pressure than R12 at equivalent temperatures. The ODP of a chemical is a factor that indicates the amount of degradation itll cause to the ozone layer that surrounds the earth and protects it from harmful radiation. Both of these gasses are very safe for use in all forms of refrigeration as theyre not flammable, explosive, or toxic. As R134a was touted as the replacement for R12, and the conversion of the refrigeration system to run R134a was relatively painless, many commercial installations use this refrigerant. As long as the compressor was working well, it could be drained, filled with R134a-compatible oil, and reused. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). Also, look for a blue sticker that gives the date of conversion. Welcome to rxmechanic.com. Unfortunately, the widespread use of R12 appeared to be significantly degrading the Earths ozone layer, potentially causing a worldwide health crisis. Its likely that these plants, which will be expensive to convert, will continue to use R12 with careful maintenance. Any old black o-rings should be replaced with R134a-compliant green o-rings. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. . Piston Slap: Booting a Torino in a snap without snaps? We have the best A/C Manifold Gauge Set and Components for the right price. Its called Polyol Ester Oil or POE oil. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. h. c. F. Porsche AG. Swapping the components isnt a herculean task, but recharging the AC is a challenge. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. The major difference between these two refrigerants is their chemical composition. But once youre on that path, you can improve the system with a new compressor and parallel-flow condenser which, in most cases, will allow you to get good results with R134a. As these two products essentially do the same job, there are many similarities between the two refrigerants. Its often said that buying or selling R12 is illegal. Start the car again and add R12A to bring the low side pressure to about 32 psi. 1. Subtract or 0.25 pounds from this number. I have seen a large difference in pressures you are looking for due to temperature demand of unit. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. Refrigerant 134a, or R134a, was developed as an alternative to the CFC refrigerants known to cause environmental damage. This chemical has carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. Its possible to convert from R12 to R134a without replacing the systems components, so when R134a was brought out, it seems to be a good match to many automotive air conditioning issues. It belongs to a class of chemicals known as HFCs, and they dont contain chlorine, so R134a doesnt damage the ozone layer. Can I mix R134 and R12a? - RedFlagDeals.com Forums By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. To be absolutely clear, these refrigerants are not EPA-approved and shouldnt be used. The service ports in both systems are quick-connect, but they are taller in the yf systems to avoid cross-contamination. R134a has a GWP of 1430. R134a is a pure refrigerant that is sometimes used in blends, while R410a is itself a blend. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. Using the specs for the current system, multiply the R12 charge by 0.9 or 90% to determine the refrigerant capacity. NOTICE: All images, artwork, text & copy on this site and page are legally protected and are not to be reproduced or distributed without prior written consent of Griffiths Technical Inc.Porsche is a registered trademark of Dr. Ing. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Many existing installations continue to use the product. As you probably know, matter can exist in three statessolid, liquid, and gas. R134a is an HFC or tetrafluoroethane, and its chemical formula is CH2FCF3. R134a was developed to replace R12, so it works over the same range of applications. eBay requires that anyone posting an auction for R12 check that the buyer has that certification, but eBay has no way to enforce it. The biggest giveaway is the air conditioning connectors. These efforts to balance the system can not be realized if there are problems within the a/c system, such as: poor performing compressor, dirty condenser or poor air flow through the condenser, malfunctioning expansion valve, water or air in the system, improperly operating fresh air or heat input in the climate-air mixing system. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Then subtract 0.25 pounds. Of course, there could be other problems such as a seized compressor or a blocked expansion valve. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. The question instead is: Why is the system dead? But the problem with R12 is twofold. Pressure Temperature Table If it is adjustable there will be an adjustment screw between the two terminals. The new player in the market is HFO-1234yf (R-1234yf), which is considered ozone-friendly and has a GWP of less than 1. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. As these refrigerants are slowly phased out, there are still many questions that people have about them. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. Oil doesnt stay in the compressor, however, it dissolves in the liquid refrigerant and gets carried through the system as a fine particulate mist when the refrigerant goes through its liquid/gaseous transition. R134a is NOT less efficient than R12 - Actually R134a is more efficient. Were most familiar with water, which we see as ice when its cold, liquid when its at room temperature, and steam when we boil it. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. Being a CFC, this product depletes the earths ozone layer, contributing to global warming. It only works with 134a refrigerant. R134a is the most commonly used refrigerant to convert automotive air conditioning away from the destructive R12. R134a is safe to use as its not toxic, flammable, or explosive. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. There are many thousands of older air conditioning and refrigeration plants that use these refrigerants. R134a can easily go between liquid and vapor states as with other refrigerants. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. Both of these refrigerants wont be used in new air conditioning or refrigeration plants, but theyll continue to be used in existing plants and the automotive industry. This chemical is tetrafluoroethane, and its chemical formula is CH2FCF3. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). The conversion to more modern refrigerants will require a replacement of the system, which will cause issues in terms of originality when showing this type of vehicle. Important Features: Color-coded Easy to use Made of high-quality brass Specific for R-134a Pros: Easy to operate. Whenever its exposed to the environment, it changes to a gas. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. $34.99. As this chemical has both chlorine and fluorine in its make-up, it belongs to the group of chemicals known as CFCs or chlorofluorocarbons. This implies that the discharge pressure of the compressor should be moderate so it can produce the refrigerants condensation in the condenser at the atmospheric temperature. Rob Siegel has been writing the column The Hack Mechanic for BMW CCA Roundel magazine for 30 years. An R134a-specific expansion valve was preferred but not strictly necessary. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. 21, 1439 AH. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. Santech R12 to R134a Coupler Conversion Kit. This makes it expensive to purchase and adds to the attraction of replacing it with other greener products. If youre still uncertain, go to a trained technician wholl tell you what refrigeration you have. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. Refrigerant: Must be EPA-approved and cannot be intentionally released (vented) into the environment. Theres no doubt that R12 refrigerant is one of the first compounds manufactured for the air conditioning and refrigeration world, but it had to be banned. Technicians must capture and recycle R134a safely, and the gas must be disposed of by following the EPA guidelines. Stay on the right side of the law, the environment, and your conscience, and dont vent refrigerant. Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. Hopefully Ive properly conveyed that, if the A/C in your precious vintage car is long-dead, the question isnt whether you choose between buying a few NOS cans of R12 and shooting them in (seriously dont do that) or converting to R134a. Before landing on the debate of R134 vs R12 you should know that both R134a and R12 are AC refrigerants types used in refrigeration and air conditioning systems. This is a highly desirable property as it means that the boiling point is always below the targeted temperature. R12 uses mineral oil, but R134a wont dissolve in mineral oil. The problem was that there was not agreement on exactly what was required for the conversion. dye and seal. They differ in the number of ports, alias manifolds, that are used for attaching accessories. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. If youre resurrecting the A/C in a vintage car, the vast majority of the time the refrigerant has long since leaked out, but if your car has refrigerant in it, and you need to open up the A/C system to work on it, spend a little money and take the car to an A/C shop. Because of this products greenhouse gas attributes, its manufacture has been banned in the European Union since 2011, and motor manufacturers stopped using it in motor vehicle air conditioning at that time. This is why it is crucially important that R134a systems be properly evacuated (pumped down to boil off any moisture) and kept sealed. In addition, there is a $10,000 rat-out fee your neighbor can collect if youre venting refrigerant and he tattles on you. To prevent refrigerant loss you should consider replacing your old hose lines with barrier type hose. However, there wereand aresome challenges to using it in an automotive A/C system designed for R12. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. The only time this product will be unsafe for humans is if its exposed to flame, when it breaks down into toxic substances or if its discharged into the air. However, leaks do occur. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. This means that the mineral oil in the system wont dissolve. 2001-2023 Griffiths Technical Inc. All Rights Reserved. He passed. You can find many videos and web forum posts where people retrofit R152a into cars that originally had R12 and profess excellent results, but it is not approved by the EPA for retrofit applications, only new car applications. The flammables have hydrocarbons. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. The biggest difference between the two is that R1234yf is mildly flammable and does require special handling. A significant investment. And don't forget the high side pressures vary with ambient temperature. R134a replaced R12 from 1994 onwards. When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. It provided much needed context as I embark on re-building the AC in my sons new (to him) 1988 Toyota pickup. I wouldnt say Im a BMW enthusiast. However, the operating pressures are reportedly four times those of other refrigerants, so retrofit appears out of the question.

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